Podcast Episode 34: A Good Apology
Introduction:
Thanks for clicking on Conversations with Crosswinds Counseling. I’m Curtis Smith and I invite you to subscribe to our podcast and to like and share it as well. I hope you enjoy today’s episode.
Podcast #34:
Curtis: Hi, everyone and welcome to Conversations with Crosswinds counseling. I’m Curtis Smith, your host. Joining us on the podcast today is one of the amazing therapists at Crosswinds Counseling, Phil Erichsen. Phil how are you?
Phil: I’m doing great today. How are you doing?
Curtis: Good. It’s good to have you back. We’re talking about a topic that is both serious, but at times might actually be a little bit funny. There’s some fun to it.
Phil: Yep.
Curtis: What is that topic today?
Phil: So today, I’m going to be talking about how to constructively do an apology.
Curtis: Okay.
Phil: Okay.
Curtis: How to say, ‘I’m sorry.’
Phil: Yeah, how to say, ‘I’m sorry.’ Okay. I work a lot with married couples and, you know, not all of us are perfect like you, so we don’t all just do everything right, and never have to say, ‘I’m sorry.’ So, like you know for us normal people, okay like we make mistakes in marriage. You know in all seriousness, us husbands, definitely…
Curtis: This feels like more of a husband thing.
Phil: Yeah, a lot of times it is. It’s also a way for wives, also, in that sense to be able to know that their husbands are trying, and making [an] effort when they are making – when they’re apologizing, and also the thing, sometimes wives can have a hard time as well doing this in reverse, you know.
Curtis: All right, so I – just the concept of saying, ‘I’m sorry,’ can be tough for some people, but you’re not only talking about doing it, because obviously we advocate saying, ‘I’m sorry,’ when you’ve made a mistake, but how to do it. How to do it well. Why to do it. When to do it. What are the thoughts around this framing of an apology?
Phil: So, I have a 5-step apology sheet here that I’ve printed out…
Curtis: And you literally have a little cheat sheet that you give mainly to husbands.
Phil: So, they have them in their wallets. It’s about credit card size. I cut them out, and it’s something good for couples, you know. Obviously, in marriage counseling we work through conflicts and things. And, so then there’s the way to resolve them, you know. One big thing with couples, and to know how well your relationship is doing, is how well can you recover? How quickly can you recover from conflict?
Curtis: Yeah.
Phil: And I know that’s a little bit a hard thing to measure depending on what the conflict was, but can you bounce back and at least get to a normal state where you’re not walking on eggshells, and you feel that it’s at least mostly resolved.
Curtis: Right.
Phil: Okay, and so the ‘I’m sorry’ is kind of the – in a weird way the icing on the cake. To kind of like, okay put this all together, and this thing here, these five steps, I cannot take credit for this…
Curtis: Okay.
Phil: It’s a cool story. So I’m originally from California. I was born and raised there, and went to Grace College out here in Indiana. Met my wife and then just have lived out here ever since.
Curtis: Okay.
Phil: But I remember when I was a kid, I cannot remember the age, I probably should ask my mom this one. Okay, but I if I were to guess it’d probably be like around 8 or 9, and we went to this big conference in California. Focus on the Family, if you guys have never heard of that, okay, it’s a big like Christian gathering thing where a bunch of parents and family, it’s marriage stuff, family things, all these different stuff, and it was this weekend long thing. And I remember going there as a kid and there were a bunch of workshops and different things, and I do remember watching Veggie Tales, but my parents got a lot of – went to a bunch of different workshops, and one of them that they went to was about this. And so this first step, actually is it okay if I kind of run through how these go?
Curtis: Absolutely. Yeah. No, I think we we want to know what the five steps are.
Phil: All right, so step one, and it’s a pretty simple basic step, but it’s often one that can be difficult for some people, and it’s – step one is saying, ‘I’m sorry.’ Specifically saying the words, ‘I am sorry.’ Some people have a tough time saying those two words. Most of the time when I encounter people that struggle with that, it’s a lot of times due to upbringing. Okay. A lot of times with their parents, uh I know my dad’s not going to be the best example for this, but my dad would say like you know, ‘I was just showing you what not to do.’ So, instead of saying, ‘I’m sorry,’ it was just like, ‘I’m showing you what not to do.’ Okay, but my dad would say, ‘I’m sorry.’ Okay, but some parents, and some people and their family, they never, no one ever says, ‘I’m sorry.’ So, they struggle with those two words.
Curtis: Yeah.
Phil: Because they can feel like it’s something. That if I say this I’m admitting 100% fault, and 100% defeat, and I am graving at your feet, and that’s not what this is supposed to be. Okay. This is just with the subject at hand, okay, and by the way with all of these steps, it’s something that I think everyone struggles with at least one of these steps somewhere, and if it’s skipped it’s something that can cause confusion or a disconnect in the communication when you’re trying to express that you are sorry. So the first one is saying the words, ‘I’m sorry.’ Right. Step two is describe what you did that was wrong. So saying, ‘I’m sorry.’ So, go step one, ‘I’m sorry because of blank.’ Because of this. Because I did this, and what you’re trying to do is keep these to a sentence or two max. Okay. You’re not trying to overload, but you are trying to be precise about it, okay. And don’t worry, I’ll give an example of this at the end, of how this all goes.
Curtis: Okay.
Phil: So, step one, say, ‘I’m sorry.’ Step two, describe what you did wrong. Step three, describe why it was wrong. So, it’s not just, ‘Hey, this was wrong. I’m sorry for doing this.’ And then you say, ‘Hey, it was wrong because of this.’ Okay, then step four is you describe how it negatively impacted the person. So, it’s not just why it was wrong, but also like, ‘Hey, when I did this, this is how it hurt you,’ is usually what it is, or ‘how it impacted you.’
Curtis: Yeah.
Phil: Okay, and then step five is one that is um – can be very hard for people, but it’s ask for forgiveness. Okay. And, the reason for this one is because this is a way to help prevent arguments from being brought up in the future. Okay. This is a way, so as couples will kind of like sweep things under the rug, and they won’t be fully resolved. Okay. And the reason why this helps prevent it being brought up in the future is if you were to ask for forgiveness, and your significant otheror whoever you’re talking to were to say, ‘I forgive you,’ and then in a later argument they were to say, ‘Well, you did this,’ you could simply say, ‘Hey, you forgave me for that.’ And now you have one of two paths to go at this point. One, is the good path, and the other one is a lot of bad things that can happen. ‘I didn’t mean it,’ or, ‘I don’t care.’ Things like that. Like, you know when they take it back, like those are all bad things, and most people catch that. Which is, by the way, why they asking forgiveness. And forgiving someone can often be hard, cuz you know that if you do that, you probably should never bring that up again. Okay. So, this is a way to kind of like keep this issue contained, and then separate it out, and ideally it’s not something brought up in the future.
Curtis: Yeah, I like that part a lot because I do think early in my marriage – this summer my wife and I will celebrate 30 years of marriage, and we rarely fight now. We get along great, but early in our marriage we had normal tension. We had fights, and I think we did a pretty poor job of that, of kind of letting things still just be below the surface, and they’d bubble right up anytime we got into conflict, and we draw back, ‘Oh, well, you did this,’ and, ‘just the other day you remember and I was mad at you about that.’ And we weren’t getting the resolution.
Curtis: Yeah, when those things happen then the best you can do after all that is like a lumpsum apology which you know, ‘I’m sorry for everything,’ which is better than nothing. I’ll say that’s better, that’s better than nothing. Okay. But, also that doesn’t resolve it. There’s no ownership, because if so many things were brought up in an argument, how do you even apologize for all those things? How do you even navigate those things? And so, a lot of times, when I’m working with couples, is trying to get down to the main issue with this, but this is kind of the conclusion. If you know what you did wrong, like how to do it.
Curtis: Okay. So, you were going to give us an example. So, let’s hear it. Since I don’t make mistakes, I would give the example, but you know as you pointed out, I don’t even know what this is about.
Phil: Unlike you sir, I make mistakes, and this is going to be an example. So, I brought up that this happened. Like my parents did this. Okay. When I was growing up, and I’ve got a younger sister, she’s three years younger than me, and so it would have been about eight or nine when we were when we were – went through this and everything. And so I’m going to give a real-life example of something that happened. Okay, so I’m to I’m going to – and you’ll understand what happened based on my apology here. This is why this works, is because a person on the outside, if this is expressed, they will be able to understand at least a general idea of what happened. Okay.
Curtis: I’m really interested to hear this apology.
Phil: So, just for reference here okay, my sister’s name is Danielle. Okay, so you guys ready, all right. So, ‘I’m sorry Danielle for taking your favorite Barbie doll and using her as a captive for my GI Joes. And I’m sorry because Barbie lost her head because sometimes the bad guys have to win.’ In the show they never won. Okay, so like I felt bad for him. I was a therapist back then, feeling bad. Okay. You know, but so I’ll say is, ‘Okay, so I’m sorry for stealing your favorite Barbie doll. It was wrong of me because I didn’t ask permission. Okay, and I also am your brother. I’m supposed to care about the things that you care about. I should have not broken something that was so valuable to you and meant so much to you. Can you forgive me?’
Curtis: So you – that’s a real life story. You took your sister’s Barbie. She lost her head to GI Joe.
Phil: Yeah, by the way it had the cap where you can’t put it back on. There’s the little plastic piece there, and you can’t stick it back on.
Curtis: So, it’s broken.
Phil: I broke my sister’s favorite Barbie doll. Yep.
Curtis: Did you actually deliver that kind of an apology?
Phil: So here’s the thing, when you’re a kid, your parents have to be like, ‘Okay say, ‘I’m sorry okay.’ ‘Why – what did you do wrong?’ “Why was it wrong,’ and, ‘Why is your sister so sad?’ And you know when I was a kid I’d be like, uh – you know I do it okay, but I got through it and then I would ask forgiveness, and they’d help coach her too, and, ‘Do you forgive? him’ And she’d say, ‘Yes,’ and things, and then we’d hug or something like that you know, and resolve it. Okay. But going through this process helped me even at that young age because now like going through it, I do that to this day. When I try when – I apologize for something, I try to do these things. It’s funny because like if you talked about early on in marriage, if my wife would apologize to me – so, this also broke me in another way. Okay. If my wife would apologize to me I’d be like, ‘Why?’ She’d be like, ‘Why, I’m just sorry.’ I’d be like, ‘No, I got to know why.’ She’s like, ‘Why?’ And so like – but she understood after I explained this.
Curtis: Right.
Phil: But yeah, it’s something that I think is helpful, and it can help you not just in a marital relationship, but just in any relationship.
Curtis: In all human relationships because we’re going to fail. We’re going to hurt people. We’re going to do things we don’t mean to or consequences that we don’t intend to have happened. So, really good stuff Phil. I really appreciate you sharing that. I think I think this is a great example of the kind of practical thing you can get through meeting with a counselor here at Crosswinds Counseling. So, Phil thanks for sharing that.
Phil: Thank you very much for having me.
Curtis: Why to say thank you, or to say I’m sorry. Rather I’m saying thank you to you thank you to you, not I’m sorry.
Phil: Okay, awesome. Love it.
Curtis: Phil. Thanks. We’ll see you next time on Conversations with Crosswinds Counseling.
Outro:
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