Podcast Episode 12: Wisdom In Counseling
Introduction:
Thanks for clicking on Conversations with Crosswinds Counseling. I’m Curtis Smith and I invite you to subscribe to our podcast and to like and share it as well. I hope you enjoy today’s episode.
Podcast #12:
Curtis: Hi, everyone, and welcome to Conversations With Crosswinds Counseling. I’m Curtis Smith, your host, and joined today by one of our counselors here at Crosswinds, Zach Herber. Zach thanks for being with us.
Zach: Absolutely.
Curtis: Zach, we’re talking about a big topic today. The topic is wisdom. When that word comes to mind, when you hear the word ‘wisdom,’ what’s the first thing that jumps out for you?
Zach: The first thing that jumps to my mind, being a believer, is Proverbs. Where, that’s a book chock full of wisdom.
Curtis: Right.
Zach: A lot of tidbits that in the small verses there that you can take away on just a way to live life.
Curtis: When you work on wisdom as something that you get with a client, and you’re interested in helping them grow in wisdom, and you’re pouring wisdom into them, what do you work on? What is something that you’re trying to infuse into your clients?
Zach: Yeah, so, a lot of what we’re trying to infuse is how people think, and trying to modify some of the beliefs that they may hold that aren’t serving them well. So, at times, we have preconceived notions about ourselves that don’t serve us well, such as, ‘I’m not good enough,’ or, ‘there’s someone else out there that’s better than me.’ ‘I can’t do something.’ Some of those things. I want to challenge those thoughts where, because we understand wisdom to be understanding, and that’s rooted in reality. So, trying to get those thoughts closer to reality.
Curtis: From a Christian perspective. I think sometimes we say the voice in our head, but sometimes it feels like Satan is whispering lies to us about ourselves, and he is the ultimate deceiver, and God’s word is the ultimate source of wisdom and truth. So, I understand from a Christian perspective how you get somebody back to that as kind of a good starting point, a good base. When someone doesn’t want to integrate faith into their counseling, how do you dive into these topics? How do you broach the subject of wisdom without being able to tap into that ultimate source of wisdom.
Zach: Yeah. So, we understand wisdom to be defined as an understanding of knowledge, or an applied application of knowledge of what’s true, and so while those values may not be the same within scripture, being able to be true to their values, and what’s realistic in a situation, that’s what we’re trying to push them towards – is within a set given set of values, what is real within a situation. If I say that I’m an Alabama football player, I’m most certainly not, and that’s not rooted in reality, but trying to have something where some of those self-defeating beliefs. We can modify some of the language that we use within client self-talk to have a structure that’s a little bit more rooted in reality of, ‘I can’t do something,’ Where understanding what those limits may be at times.
Curtis: Right. So, let’s unpack that a little bit more. You’re not an Alabama football player.
Zach: No.
Curtis: Neither am I, full disclosure. So, but, that’s okay. Right. Like not everyone is going to be that kind of a physical presence. Not in that kind of amazing shape. So how do you work with somebody who’s either saying to themselves, ‘I am an Alabama football player’ when they’re not, or get so down on themselves for not being what they want to be? How do you do the work of backing them out of that space so that they can get into a healthier place?
Zach: Right. So, that goes in through a process within Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, which is a modality of therapy that looks into addressing thoughts which impacts behaviors and thus emotional response. Where through process of cognitive restructuring you challenge those initial thoughts that are coming in with something that’s more rooted in reality. Obviously, the Alabama football player, that’s a pretty dramatic example.
Curtis: Right.
Zach: But another thought where we’ll get – have a given situation and then try to unpack it more. Of what thoughts were going on? What emotions did that evoke? They’re what types of faulty thinking errors come up there, and then how do we come up with an alternate draft that combats that first initial thought that comes in.
Curtis: It seems to be so easy to grasp and hang on to and cling to the negative. Like the little voice in my head almost never says anything positive about me, or if if it does that just seems so hard to hold on to. Whereas, ‘I’m not good enough,’ ‘I’m not strong enough,’ ‘I’m not smart enough,’ all of those thoughts seem very easy to believe and to linger and to hold on to. Why is that the case for so many people?
Zach: Part of it is we’re drawn towards the negative, both from an instinctual standpoint, but also if you think about culturally. A lot of what people bring in through the news is negative. So, it’s easier to draw on the things that aren’t going well rather than what is going well. Where that’s where we want to push clients towards maybe you’re not an Alabama football player, but you have a lot of skills that you may be overlooking that could be helpful to you in your daily life to draw upon of having some confidence and competence in the skills that you have.
Curtis: When you see a lot of clients, Zach, are a lot of your clients coming in needing to do self-work? Is a lot of it more relationships? Like I’m struggling in this scenario with my spouse, with friends, with co-workers, or do you have a lot of people coming in with enough self-awareness to say, ‘I’m just struggling.’ ‘I’m struggling with the voice in my head.’ ‘I’m struggling to think this way – to be this way.’ Or is it a mix of both?
Zach: It’s a little bit of a mix of both. Depends on a person’s awareness of the problem. So, for those clients who do have more awareness, it’s easier to get to some of those self-defeating beliefs, but sometimes you have to do a little bit more digging, a little bit more deeper work to kind of answer – unearth those.
Curtis: Yeah. I do wonder if the exterior stuff, the external stuff, relationships with others, I wonder if it does kind of sometimes all boil back down to us, and to getting that work done even if that doesn’t seem to be at first the situation they’re worried about – the external. You might have to drive them back to the internal.
Zach: Right. Because within clients you have to own 100% of your contribution to a situation where sometimes it’s harder to take some of that ownership, and it’s easier to place things on others. Where, as we move towards what’s going on inside, that helps the process along the way.
Curtis: Yeah. You mentioned an evidence-based practice earlier, the balance of doing EBPs and doing real therapy work with someone while having a faith, and while being a Christian. Tell me about that, like, how does that go for you? How do you reconcile both things together? Being smart, and being well-trained, and being versed in things that have been proven to be effective for people, and having a faith, and belief and trust in Jesus.
Zach: Yeah, so from my vantage point and perspective, these evidence-based practices are informed through biblical principles, and it’s based off of the structure within scripture. So, let’s say for cognitive behavioral therapy, for example, you know, Romans 12:1 and 2 talks about the renewal of your mind. As we renew our mind and have that understanding and the wisdom that comes through the renewal of our mind to get to that rooted reality, that’s the practice of cognitive CBT in a nutshell. Being able to rethink and think about things differently, and then go from there. So, from that standpoint we’ve known Romans has been around for over 2000 years.
Curtis: Right.
Zach: It’s just we’re now catching up within a field and to be able to help people in that way.
Curtis: It’s exciting stuff.
Zach: Yeah.
Curtis: Zach, thank you so much for sharing. Zach Herber, one of the great counselors here at Crosswinds Counseling. A place where you can get counseling regardless of your faith, regardless of your beliefs, but if you’d like to integrate faith into counseling, Crosswinds Counseling is a great place to do that. You can learn more at crosswindscounseling.org. Thanks for joining us on Conversations With Crosswinds Counseling. We’ll see you next time right here on this podcast.
Outro:
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